Need Help: Jalopnik Car(bon) Dating

"Charlie Zulu" (VeniVidiHooni) 06/19/2017 at 13:47 • Filed to: None

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Fellow Jalops,

As mentioned in a previous post, this Father’s Day was spent looking at old family pictures on slides, via a projector. Old School.

There is a particular set of slides that did not immediately reveal the vintage of their contents, so I’m reaching out to y’all for help.

In what year would you say this picture was taken?

Thank you.

CZ

(note: the hand-holding-the-smartphone portion of the image (at right) is from yesterday, so saying “this if from June 18, 2017" does not count; we are talking about the image which was so thoughtlessly violated by the aforementioned visual intrusion.)

TheTurbochargedSquirrel > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 13:50

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Late 70s.

AfromanGTO > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 13:56

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San Fransico in 76?

lone_liberal > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 13:57

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Late 70s or early 80s, but I’d bet on it being earlier on the timeline.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 14:00

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Well there is a Bronco so its after 66.

diplodicus > TheTurbochargedSquirrel 06/19/2017 at 14:00

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That’s my guess too, looks like thats a International Scout II which were produced from 71-80. That’s the only car in the pic I can identify.

edit: actually a scout https://classiccars.com/listings/view/974279/1979-international-scout-for-sale-in-volo-illinois-60073

WilliamsSW > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 14:01

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The newest car that I can make out in this picture is the white/beige coupe on the left hand side. I *think* that’s a 78-79 Chrysler Cordoba. Further down the same row, there’s a light brown car that *might* be a 1980-89 Lincoln Town Car, but I’m much less sure about that one. I’d say 1979-80.

diplodicus > Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif 06/19/2017 at 14:02

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That’s not a Bronco. International Scout II.

I think it’s actually a Scout now found one with that same paint job.

https://classiccars.com/listings/view/974279/1979-international-scout-for-sale-in-volo-illinois-60073

Die-Trying > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 14:02

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that van in the intersection was BRAND new at the time. 78-ish .....

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 14:08

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Sadly nothing I can do to help - but looking at old photos of San Francisco never gets old.

fintail > WilliamsSW 06/19/2017 at 14:13

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If we are looking at the same car, the light brown thing looks like a Mercury Monarch (coupe) to me (parked next to a Ford Courier).

I agree with your date era, based on the Cordoba, a Dodge Magnum further down, and a Ford LTD II at right near the Eldo - with the Ford and Magnum, it is definitely no earlier than 1977.

fintail > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 14:14

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Dodge Magnum and LTD II in the pic are no older than 1977.

WilliamsSW > fintail 06/19/2017 at 14:18

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We are looking at the same car - - and I definitely think it’s either a Mercury or Lincoln. I’m really unsure, but some of the details further back (looking through the Courier) look like the roofline of a 1980 Town Car coupe, and it almost looks like it has that goofy split vent window that Lincolns had for a while. That may be a trick, though, showing trim from the next car down.

random001 > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 14:20

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Judging from the skidmarks that are present, clearly from the filming of Bullitt, This is from 1968.

fintail > WilliamsSW 06/19/2017 at 14:24

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I think on those oddball peak malaise Town Coupes, the B-pillar was more upright. Been awhile since I have seen one of those. I see the vent window shape too, I think it is an illusion. It also appears to have the same rear quarter window as a Monarch/Granada (I suspect the former, as the grille looks more formal). Fomoco styling definitely had a theme in those days, especially with front clips and window shapes.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 14:33

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Late 70s to very early 80s.

Future next gen S2000 owner > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 14:35

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Judging by the smartphone in hand shadow.... I’d say that picture posted was very recent. Proper credit is needed as the person used their phone in landscape mode.

WilliamsSW > fintail 06/19/2017 at 14:48

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Hehe - I just had a thought that we might *both* be right. More than anything, the nose looks like that of a Lincoln Versailles. Although there was no coupe version of that car. :)

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 06/19/2017 at 14:49

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I’m also going to say no later than 1983 or so. But it’s sometimes hard to tell as cars aren’t necessarily new.

I feel like the skyline in the background could also potentially be indicative. Appears to be San Francisco...

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > diplodicus 06/19/2017 at 15:14

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Ya that looks correct!

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > ZHP Sparky, the 5th 06/19/2017 at 15:22

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San Francisco still looks similar today, aside from the added high rises and newer cars.

Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 15:30

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Went at it in a different direction as far as the buildings go, the tall building to the left of the pyramid looks to be the Four Embarcado building which was complete in 1982. Or could be 333 Bush which was 86.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > diplodicus 06/19/2017 at 15:32

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Definitely an International Scout. Sadly, it doesn’t help with identifying the date/year because they made them nearly identically for many years.

Ash78, voting early and often > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 06/19/2017 at 15:33

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Salesforce tower and more urine. Otherwise identical.

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Die-Trying 06/19/2017 at 15:38

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Wasn’t that body style for the 1979 model year? They used the same body with little more than tweaks to lights, from then through 2003 (when they quit making them).

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > diplodicus 06/19/2017 at 15:39

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Doesn’t guarantee it wasn’t an older Scout, though. Could even be early 80s...

wafflesnfalafel > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 15:44

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August 12th, 1977 - 7:20 AM

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > Ash78, voting early and often 06/19/2017 at 15:51

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I dunno, I bet there was already a lot of urine everywhere. This is San Francisco we’re talking about here.

If it was Berkeley, I’m sure there’s no difference whatsoever.

Die-Trying > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 06/19/2017 at 16:01

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i’m seeing a dodge van, but it could be a chevy van too, and those chevys were around since 71.

but those ford ltd are all 77 and 78 models

KevlarRx7 > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 17:05

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Welp the Transamerica pyramid was built in 69, looks like the picture could have been taken from Alfred Street? Alfred’s is still running, maybe they could tell you when they were still on that street and when they moved buildings?

Charlie Zulu > wafflesnfalafel 06/19/2017 at 17:12

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Brilliantly close. It was 7:26 AM. Four days later, Elvis was dead.

fintail > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 06/19/2017 at 18:12

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Yep it’s definitely SF. The lack of 1980s cars makes me want to date it to no later than around that date. Cars last longer on the west coast, but cars of this era aged fast, and people still bought new cars.

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Charlie Zulu 06/19/2017 at 22:40

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1977.

the picture is looking east with the oakland bridge in the background., with the Transamerica Pyramid to teh right (south) There are cranes on top of the building to the left of the Transamerica Pyramid which i think is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Embarcadero_Center

gmporschenut also a fan of hondas > Lumpy44, Proprietor Of Fine Gif 06/19/2017 at 22:44

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i guessed 77 but i selected the tower 3 in google maps. I think you’re right with 82

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 06/19/2017 at 22:48

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There aren’t late 1980s cars, but there are cars that were built well into the early 1980s. Malaise cars were still being driven into the 1990s.

The 1980s, particularly 1985+, was really weird. You had a lot of cars that were basically modern (Japanese & European) with ridiculously-backward Malaise junk being built by the Americans. Stuff that doesn’t even look like it belongs together.

The transition in recent years has been much smoother than it was back then.

For example, can we identify that pickup there? The lines are throwing me.

fintail > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 06/19/2017 at 23:03

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I’m old enough to remember, and I am on the west coast, where these cars lived on and a few are still around. The cars in my family during the era are representative - a gigantic mid 70s T-Bird that was off the road by 1985, a Tempo, Horizon, S-10 Blazer, Ciera, etc. There was a slow transition into peak malaise, then a slow crawl out of it.

The small pickup at left is a Ford Courier or Mazda B-series (likely the former, as I believe they were more common in earlier years).

Eric @ opposite-lock.com > fintail 06/19/2017 at 23:35

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I thought that’s what it might have been. Those were first sold in 1977, then mostly replaced by the Ranger in 1983.

I was a small child in the 1980s in Los Angeles. I remember a time when my neighborhood had such random cars as: 1970 VW Bus, 1969 Ford Falcon, 1982 Ford Granada, ~1986 Acura Integra, ~1986 Subaru XT, 1970s Buick coupe, mid-1980s Volvo wagon, Pinto, Chevette, Lincoln Mark VII, etc. But this was around 1986-1988; before that, the world was very Malaise. That’s why I think this could be a little later, but not a lot later. It really looks like 1979-1982 or so. Elsewhere in the comments, someone said that a visible building was completed in 1982 or 1983, which would push it later than the age of the years the cars were built.

You also have to remember that in 1977 the average car was 5.5 years old, while in 1983 the average car was 7.2 years old...

fintail > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 06/19/2017 at 23:46

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Yep, appears to be a boxier second gen Courier, 1977+.

I was a kid in WA in the 80s (I was 3 in 1980), and into cars, I remember a lot too. I remember 50s stuff was still relatively common, still on the road, and 60s stuff wasn’t remarkable. Beetles were still everywhere, neighbors had a convertible one, other neighbors had something generic replaced by a Marty McFly Toyota truck, people across the street had a GM clamshell wagon, also across the street a removeable top Blazer and an early RX7, grandparents had a big 70s era Chrysler until 1985 or so, an uncle had a 200SX fastback and a 810 wagon, a couple of teachers I liked had a 77-79 T-Bird and a Pontiac 6000 2-door, etc.

I can believe the early 80s. Gentle climate helps cars age well, and I notice the Eldo seems to be a little bent in the grille area, maybe already heading towards bangerdom. It seems Japanese cars modernized strongly around 1982-83, this is right at the cusp of that, I think.

ZHP Sparky, the 5th > Eric @ opposite-lock.com 06/20/2017 at 13:25

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Oh I know. I lived there until last summer. But for example on the picture towards the water you can see the old highway that was taken down after the ‘89 earthquake. Some cool facebook groups like “Lost San Francisco” that have a ton of old photographs from way back too...like stuff before the 1906 quake, buildings that got demolished/destroyed by fires, structures that were part of the world’s fair, etc. (of which only the palace of fine arts really exists anymore I believe).

REO Jackwagon > Charlie Zulu 06/27/2017 at 18:32

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It’s around 1049 broadway in SF, if that helps.